Catan Universe 2.0.0


  • administrators

    @P3tra said:

    The worst update ever…
    No wishes of the players were taken into consideration. On the contrary, what was somewhat okay was broken now and was introduced what no one wanted… more slow animations.

    We wanted: all trade options (to have the possibility to answer “I don’t have that resource”, which prevents useless offers or “I want more resources”), option to play with friendly robber in auto match, option for human substitute, option to watch other games, option to kick the player who isn't playing (when the kick timer doesn’t work), better dice algorithm, better programming for the AI player, no more frozen games, multicatan, lobby and so on…

    What we get: EVEN MORE SLOW ANIMATION!!!!, no option to SEE our cards (the resources), which is the most horrible thing until now and we don't have the possibility to SEE the trades normally, which is the most important thing in the Catan Game - THE RESOURCES AND THE TRADES! We are forced to watch so many animations, but we can't really see when a player trades resources with the bank... this is isn't happening in the real life and is a strategy killer. Other question, for what reason is more important to see the development cards then the resources cards?? Everything is messed up and incredibly slow. @administrators @Developers PLEASE solve the resource and trade problems and give us the possibility to get rid of the slow and useless animations!

    Actually a lot of feedback from users went into the update. One of the main complaints towards the desktop version was that the UI is taking up too much space and it's blocking the view on the actual game board.

    You can open up the trade board at any point after a trade offer comes in. The quick trade option to the right is to enable you to "quick trade".... This is a very popular feature in the mobile version and we added it now to the desktop version as well.

    The card fan of the resources was highly criticized for blocking the view and being unnecessary because you couldn't really do anything with the cards. We changed that by using a resource bar where you can see all resources without overlapping cards that might have the same color.

    Animations help new players to understand whats going on in the game. We are aware that avid players might not need them at all but this is also just the first iteration of the animations. Same goes for the auto-zoom options which are completely optional and can be deactivated in the options menu.

    Please keep in mind we can´t make a game only for a small portion of highly skilled Catan players with laser fast animations. This is not sustainable. We always have to present a balance.

    Regarding your points you made about the feedback you wished we would have considered:

    1. answers for trade: We will rework the trade giving players more options 2.0 enables us to do so
      2.friendly robber and human substitute players for auto match something we looked in closely but only a very small portion of players want it and a large majority of players don´t want to get into an already started game. Thats why we are not considering it.
    2. options to watch other games: this is an architectural issue we will have to solve but the option will get more interesting to us once the tournament mode is implemented
    3. the entire kick timer system will be reworked. 2.0 now allows us to do some things differently and we will make use of that
    4. there is no way for us to win this argument and even a replacement of any sort of rng won't end this conversation. We can´t resolve a problem when there is non
    5. the Ai will get improved alongside with the trade rework to make less trade offers and "annoy" the player. But the AI will never be a challenger for an avid player. That's simply not our goal
    6. see 4
    7. we are working on it;)
    8. We laid out in the past why we won´t do lobbies and with even more players online than ever we will double down on the argument we made. It´s not feasible to do so and also a super small group of Catanians ask us about it. Why we won´t do it: The lists get too long and cumbersome. new players get confused and most players don´t want to spend their time searching or waiting for other players... they want to play.


  • 2- PlayCatan actually had the random maps as free and it worked. Maybe you have to rethink your monetization strategy. Make expansions based on subscription not pay-once-play-for-free-forever. You are really not going to make much money out of this game if you do not get any new players. You are not getting any money out of most of your players because they already paid once.

    4- You basically tell us that you made the UI/UX worse and we should just deal with it. What happened to listening to player feedback?



  • You really do not know what you are talking about when you do not allow lobbies. Think about client-side filtering and using a lobby is super easy to manage. You did not really pay any attention to how PlayCatan worked? It did everything right about lobbies, about player substitution (yes, most people do not want to substitute BUT they will appreciate it a lot when a human substitutes a quitter rather than AI). And a lobby is just a requirement to allow this kind of substitution system. So... LOBBY IS SUPERIOR TO MATCHMAKER! Especially if you try to add more expansions and other games into your "universe".



  • You said that you want to support all platforms but now you made the PC version sooo similar to tablet that it is just horrible playing on PC. It's really bad UX for PC. Merging all the platforms into one is a horrible idea and this had been constantly been told to you. As well as players wanting lobby. You say that not many people want lobby but you could make the same argument about matchmaker. I have seen much more criticism about people wanting a lobby than people wanting a matchmaker. You are really not paying attention to what the customers want IMO.



  • @Administrator said:

    @P3tra said:

    The worst update ever…
    No wishes of the players were taken into consideration. On the contrary, what was somewhat okay was broken now and was introduced what no one wanted… more slow animations.

    We wanted: all trade options (to have the possibility to answer “I don’t have that resource”, which prevents useless offers or “I want more resources”), option to play with friendly robber in auto match, option for human substitute, option to watch other games, option to kick the player who isn't playing (when the kick timer doesn’t work), better dice algorithm, better programming for the AI player, no more frozen games, multicatan, lobby and so on…

    What we get: EVEN MORE SLOW ANIMATION!!!!, no option to SEE our cards (the resources), which is the most horrible thing until now and we don't have the possibility to SEE the trades normally, which is the most important thing in the Catan Game - THE RESOURCES AND THE TRADES! We are forced to watch so many animations, but we can't really see when a player trades resources with the bank... this is isn't happening in the real life and is a strategy killer. Other question, for what reason is more important to see the development cards then the resources cards?? Everything is messed up and incredibly slow. @administrators @Developers PLEASE solve the resource and trade problems and give us the possibility to get rid of the slow and useless animations!

    Actually a lot of feedback from users went into the update. One of the main complaints towards the desktop version was that the UI is taking up too much space and it's blocking the view on the actual game board.

    You can open up the trade board at any point after a trade offer comes in. The quick trade option to the right is to enable you to "quick trade".... This is a very popular feature in the mobile version and we added it now to the desktop version as well.

    The card fan of the resources was highly criticized for blocking the view and being unnecessary because you couldn't really do anything with the cards. We changed that by using a resource bar where you can see all resources without overlapping cards that might have the same color.

    Here are 3 major problems here:

    First - Why is the development card more important than the resource card? - if you really need to shut down cards, do the opposite (shut down the development cards) and keep in mind always what is the MAIN tool or need in the Catan Game. Playing in this conditions is very hard, watching all the time NUMBERS, the focus in game changes.

    Second - You made it EXTREMELY difficult for us to trade. The so called "quick trade" is in reality a huge block in the game, because first you need to see what cards you have in order to see if the trade is advantageous or not, what is quite difficult in the actual circumstances. First of all, because you don't see your cards above or bellow the trade box (the quick box) and second, because it appears with +Xcard and -Ycard, which makes you feel even more confused, because you think you DON'T have the card which appears with "-" sign. There is really everything out of logic. This new platform changes the focus from fun to a torment to see which sign corresponds to which. This means you are always forced to open the other trade box (useless added steps). Again, think of the main tool or need in the Catan Game - resources and trades!

    THIRD - You say "highly criticized", but if you read the actual feedback, all players are complaining about the SAME thing. It is really curious. Be fair and do a poll.

    Animations help new players to understand whats going on in the game. We are aware that avid players might not need them at all but this is also just the first iteration of the animations. Same goes for the auto-zoom options which are completely optional and can be deactivated in the options menu.

    Please keep in mind we can´t make a game only for a small portion of highly skilled Catan players with laser fast animations. This is not sustainable. We always have to present a balance.

    You also have to keep in mind that the "new players" become normal/old/avid players, which means you inserted a tool that is thought to help new comers, but to held back all other players. Where is the priority? If you want so, make an option for all other player to disable all this "helping animations" and it is good for everybody, of course, if this is the real reason you inserted them. You doubled the duration of the game. Be fair and make a poll to see what the players want, speed or helping animation, it is so easy to find out... if you really want to.

    Regarding your points you made about the feedback you wished we would have considered:

    1. answers for trade: We will rework the trade giving players more options 2.0 enables us to do so

    Very good, but before that, as I said, we got a worst trade experience. It was a comparison of what we expected and what we got.

    2.friendly robber and human substitute players for auto match something we looked in closely but only a very small portion of players want it and a large majority of players don´t want to get into an already started game. Thats why we are not considering it.

    And the friendly robber option? You have it at the beginning, you don't need to get into an already started game, in order to have the possibility to chose it.

    1. options to watch other games: this is an architectural issue we will have to solve but the option will get more interesting to us once the tournament mode is implemented
    1. the entire kick timer system will be reworked. 2.0 now allows us to do some things differently and we will make use of that
    2. there is no way for us to win this argument and even a replacement of any sort of rng won't end this conversation. We can´t resolve a problem when there is non
    3. the Ai will get improved alongside with the trade rework to make less trade offers and "annoy" the player. But the AI will never be a challenger for an avid player. That's simply not our goal
    4. see 4
    5. we are working on it;)
    6. We laid out in the past why we won´t do lobbies and with even more players online than ever we will double down on the argument we made. It´s not feasible to do so and also a super small group of Catanians ask us about it. Why we won´t do it: The lists get too long and cumbersome. new players get confused and most players don´t want to spend their time searching or waiting for other players... they want to play.

    For all other points, is the same as the first point, the same comparison. I am glad to hear for most of the points, but I we hear it since years and the highlighted point was that instead we got something that made our gameplay experience more difficult and slower (in the meantime...).



  • @Stroom
    I agree strongly with this sentiment! The PC version is terrible & clunky.


  • administrators

    @Stroom This is a nice ideal you are thinking about when you believe a few subscriptions could carry the weight of an ongoing development process including the costs for servers and staff. The Platform you are talking about is a thing of the past and you should let go of it. We won't add lobbies. Catan Universe is a different product. It has a much larger audience and it is cross-platform.



  • @P3tra said:

    You also have to keep in mind that the "new players" become normal/old/avid players, which means you inserted a tool that is thought to help new comers, but to held back all other players. Where is the priority? If you want so, make an option for all other player to disable all this "helping animations" and it is good for everybody, of course, if this is the real reason you inserted them. You doubled the duration of the game. Be fair and make a poll to see what the players want, speed or helping animation, it is so easy to find out... if you really want to.

    Seriously, the priority is the players who have not bought any expansions or the base game yet. After you have done it, you are not going to pay for anything in the game anymore. Why should they care about experienced players under this monetization strategy? Only new players bring in money to them. I've been saying this for years and this update and admin comments really brings it out in the open.



  • @Administrator A few subscriptions? People want to play C&K and Seafarers. Are you saying that no-one would be willing to pay a monthly fee to play the expansions?

    You want 4-15 dollars for one-time-payment but a subscription would probably pay you 1 dollar every month. I am pretty sure that a reliable player base playing C&K over 2-3 years pays much more than the one-time payment you collect from the players.

    Look at how microtransactions in mobile games make a lot of money. It is basically like subscription where you can just play more if you want to. You are not even doing subscription, only up-front payment.

    What you are currently implying is that you want players to buy all the expansions for 15 dollars, then get tired of the game and quit... And then just new players come and buy the expansions and quit etc. You are not even trying to make a game that players would enjoy for several years because you know nothing is keeping them playing.

    I am bringing up PlayCatan because it WORKED! The lobbies worked, player substitutions worked. Now, we more experienced players have to go play on an unofficial platform (you know what I am talking about but you would ban me if I said what it is) because you can not keep the game functional enough to make the game play on a competitive level.


  • administrators

    @Stroom Wrong. We have very successfully had the one-time payment in what's now called "Catan Classic" and we will continue with this path in Catan Universe as well. A lot of players have been with us since the beginning and we are thankful for those players and their purchases we added features for them and will continue to do so. You are demonizing a fair monetizing strategy that's not based on ads, subscriptions, extra fees, loot boxes, and similar "tricks".


  • administrators

    @P3tra said:

    @Administrator said:

    @P3tra said:

    The worst update ever…
    No wishes of the players were taken into consideration. On the contrary, what was somewhat okay was broken now and was introduced what no one wanted… more slow animations.

    We wanted: all trade options (to have the possibility to answer “I don’t have that resource”, which prevents useless offers or “I want more resources”), option to play with friendly robber in auto match, option for human substitute, option to watch other games, option to kick the player who isn't playing (when the kick timer doesn’t work), better dice algorithm, better programming for the AI player, no more frozen games, multicatan, lobby and so on…

    What we get: EVEN MORE SLOW ANIMATION!!!!, no option to SEE our cards (the resources), which is the most horrible thing until now and we don't have the possibility to SEE the trades normally, which is the most important thing in the Catan Game - THE RESOURCES AND THE TRADES! We are forced to watch so many animations, but we can't really see when a player trades resources with the bank... this is isn't happening in the real life and is a strategy killer. Other question, for what reason is more important to see the development cards then the resources cards?? Everything is messed up and incredibly slow. @administrators @Developers PLEASE solve the resource and trade problems and give us the possibility to get rid of the slow and useless animations!

    Actually a lot of feedback from users went into the update. One of the main complaints towards the desktop version was that the UI is taking up too much space and it's blocking the view on the actual game board.

    You can open up the trade board at any point after a trade offer comes in. The quick trade option to the right is to enable you to "quick trade".... This is a very popular feature in the mobile version and we added it now to the desktop version as well.

    The card fan of the resources was highly criticized for blocking the view and being unnecessary because you couldn't really do anything with the cards. We changed that by using a resource bar where you can see all resources without overlapping cards that might have the same color.

    Here are 3 major problems here:

    First - Why is the development card more important than the resource card? - if you really need to shut down cards, do the opposite (shut down the development cards) and keep in mind always what is the MAIN tool or need in the Catan Game. Playing in this conditions is very hard, watching all the time NUMBERS, the focus in game changes.

    Second - You made it EXTREMELY difficult for us to trade. The so called "quick trade" is in reality a huge block in the game, because first you need to see what cards you have in order to see if the trade is advantageous or not, what is quite difficult in the actual circumstances. First of all, because you don't see your cards above or bellow the trade box (the quick box) and second, because it appears with +Xcard and -Ycard, which makes you feel even more confused, because you think you DON'T have the card which appears with "-" sign. There is really everything out of logic. This new platform changes the focus from fun to a torment to see which sign corresponds to which. This means you are always forced to open the other trade box (useless added steps). Again, think of the main tool or need in the Catan Game - resources and trades!

    THIRD - You say "highly criticized", but if you read the actual feedback, all players are complaining about the SAME thing. It is really curious. Be fair and do a poll.

    Animations help new players to understand whats going on in the game. We are aware that avid players might not need them at all but this is also just the first iteration of the animations. Same goes for the auto-zoom options which are completely optional and can be deactivated in the options menu.

    Please keep in mind we can´t make a game only for a small portion of highly skilled Catan players with laser fast animations. This is not sustainable. We always have to present a balance.

    You also have to keep in mind that the "new players" become normal/old/avid players, which means you inserted a tool that is thought to help new comers, but to held back all other players. Where is the priority? If you want so, make an option for all other player to disable all this "helping animations" and it is good for everybody, of course, if this is the real reason you inserted them. You doubled the duration of the game. Be fair and make a poll to see what the players want, speed or helping animation, it is so easy to find out... if you really want to.

    Regarding your points you made about the feedback you wished we would have considered:

    1. answers for trade: We will rework the trade giving players more options 2.0 enables us to do so

    Very good, but before that, as I said, we got a worst trade experience. It was a comparison of what we expected and what we got.

    2.friendly robber and human substitute players for auto match something we looked in closely but only a very small portion of players want it and a large majority of players don´t want to get into an already started game. Thats why we are not considering it.

    And the friendly robber option? You have it at the beginning, you don't need to get into an already started game, in order to have the possibility to chose it.

    Less than 3% of all custom matches played using friendly robber option. The interest in this feature, therefore, is pretty small

    1. options to watch other games: this is an architectural issue we will have to solve but the option will get more interesting to us once the tournament mode is implemented
    1. the entire kick timer system will be reworked. 2.0 now allows us to do some things differently and we will make use of that
    2. there is no way for us to win this argument and even a replacement of any sort of rng won't end this conversation. We can´t resolve a problem when there is non
    3. the Ai will get improved alongside with the trade rework to make less trade offers and "annoy" the player. But the AI will never be a challenger for an avid player. That's simply not our goal
    4. see 4
    5. we are working on it;)
    6. We laid out in the past why we won´t do lobbies and with even more players online than ever we will double down on the argument we made. It´s not feasible to do so and also a super small group of Catanians ask us about it. Why we won´t do it: The lists get too long and cumbersome. new players get confused and most players don´t want to spend their time searching or waiting for other players... they want to play.

    For all other points, is the same as the first point, the same comparison. I am glad to hear for most of the points, but I we hear it since years and the highlighted point was that instead we got something that made our gameplay experience more difficult and slower (in the meantime...).



  • OK, do the monetization your way then.

    "Less than 3% of all custom matches played using friendly robber option. The interest in this feature, therefore, is pretty small"

    This is a cause-effect issue. You know why no-one is using these specific options? Because the matchmaker is horrible and you are not going to find a random game with these options. You can only get the base game and expansions basic options. Nothing else really works. With a lobby, you would see more players choosing friendly robber. In PlayCatan (with lobby) nearly half games were 3 player friendly robber games. Because of the lobby, it was easier to see what options the community is using.

    You are not really trying to even consider all the pros a lobby would offer compared to the matchmaker which well get worse and worse each time you add more expansions. The player base is just not big enough for a matchmaker. A lobby is easy to filter based on the player choices so he only sees maybe 10 games he would want to join. That can easily fit on the screen. Go look on boardgamearena - they have over 100 different games with different options. The lobby is really easy to use to find the game with the options you would want to join. Colonist.io lobby is not good enough yet but even there it works. Asobrain also has a lobby IIRC. Matchmaker is not as smart as humans.


  • administrators

    @Stroom We have a dataset of hundreds of thousands of custom games played only in the last few weeks. It´s more than a fair "assumption" that this feature isn't highly requested if only a very small percentage of the population even uses it.

    And again... Lobbies won´t happen in Catan Universe.



  • I also have a few pain points with new app.

    1. BUG: When I receive a trade offer and I counter, the AI actually accepts the original offer (it happened to me several times on single games)
    2. Not seeing the cards on my hand is very painful, You have a lot of (useless, but fine, I see your point on ney users and you can disable them) graphic, I would try to include a small one that shows cards in some way
    3. And this should be #1 - WE NEED TO SEE WHAT OTHER PLAYERS DO. 4 for 1 are impossible to catch, trades among players are super fast and you just see +1 -1 , also cards used for building stuff is now SUPER HARD TO SEE. You said you build a lot of the animation to help new gamers (fine, you know your audience better than we do) but they also need to see this


  • And please change the AI so that it no longer attacks the weaker player and only plays in second place.


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