# Dice needs to be fixed. Rigged for one number over and over again. browsing

• The dice needs to be changed. Whatever algorithm you have for it SUCKS. There is no way in a normal game does a "6" get rolled five times the same way in a row. Highly unlikely. I have noticed this with other numbers as well. Seriously needs to be changed. Ruins the game.

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• This post is deleted!
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• @Mashyyy @M4RC15 @Developers @administrators I can confirm this observation. In the last month, it seemed as if every other game was plagued with these extremely unlikely dice series. The number changes, but the phenomenon appears sometimes several times in one game. (e.g. 9 rolls 5x, then 12 rolls 2x, then 8 rolls 3x) The dice just keeps repeating itself. This is especially funny when a number with very low probability is picked, like 2, 3, or 11, or 12. What are the odds for a number like to rolls several times in a row? Yet it happens a lot. Espescially at Cities and Knights, this can totally unbalance a game.

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• I can concur and I think this is part of a larger algorhythm scheme. Ive seen so many games where new players pick REALLY bad numbers but then end up winning or almost winning because of the Dice algorhythm. Even yesterday a player with <1000 ELO picked 3/4/6 & 3/4/11 without any wheat or sheep and no port, lost his city on the first robber, and still ended up winning because 3/4/11 kept rolling over and over and over again: 9x3 9x4 12x11(!!!) with hardly any 6 or 8. I even made a screenshot of the dice outcome because it was as unlikely as winning the lottery.

Almost every time I see this happen, its a <1000 ELO player getting lucky.
In my opinion the dice are rigged in favour of new players to give them a fun time when learning, which ends up in more (paying) users for them.
This wouldn't be such a problem for me if there would be enough high ELO players to play against regularly, but in C&K for example, this rarely is the case.
Most of the time youre matched up against low ELO players, if you're not unlucky you end up winning and gain +3 elo, but lots of times a newb gets lucky and you lose 10-12..

I also see other patterns in dice and game that for me takes out all the fun, cause its clear very little is random.
If you end up without ore in a game for example, you can bet on it that you will recieve a mining card. No wheat? You'll get irrigation like crazy
If you get a spy, most times, another (lower ELO ranked) guy gets a spy too, and he can play it before you do.
Not to mention AI players that would rather pick from the guy with 4 points than the guy with 12 points, this should be so easy to fix!

You might think all this is paranoid, but all I can say is on playcatan i never saw this behaviour, and i won a LOT more games.
Either i suddenly got way worse when this platform got introduced, or somethings really up with how the game works here!

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• The dice is so horribly designed. I haven't had a single game where it was balanced. Not ONE. The game is great, but the dice singlehandedly ruins so many games its awful. Its always 2 numbers that get rolled over and over and over.

How cant they fix this? It literally takes 4 games to notice this pattern.

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• True. It seems to decide which 2 numbers are going to get rolled the most. There is no point in playing the odds, which really takes all the strategy and fun out of the game. They get a lot of complaints about this, but never seem to fix it.

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• I can't post images or I'd put up the screen shot of the game I just had. The dice algorithm is utter garbage despite their constant denials. Here are the rolls from my last game.

2 - 1
3 - 4
4 - 3
5 - 3
6 - 19
7 - 17
8 - 2
9 - 6
10 - 2
11 - 3
12 - 1

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• I have a theory based on my many games mostly against AI. The dice algorithm is bias as part of the game difficulty. Bias die rolls that favor AI over player is an easy way to adjust difficulty where the fair way, in many opinions, is to program better AI.

One way they could do this without appearing too bias would be that dice rolling routine rolls twice and chooses the number that is least beneficial to the players and/or most beneficial to the AI. Could also be tweaked to benefit the player with bad numbers and low ELO. The roll twice, pick two AI 'cheat' would be bias but not obviously so. Especially if it didn't do it on every roll, but just enough to appear balance.

I do want to hedge and say this could all be the 'Backgammon Illusion'. When backgammon was very popular on the internet, there were players complaining about seeing double sixes 3-6 times in a row which is astronomically rare.' A few players saw this happened and would report the dice were bias or not random. The problem wast that there were millions of games playing every day such an occurrence was likely to happen somewhere. Thus the illusion that the dice were not fair. Sort of like the odds of winning the lottery are ridiculous, but with the number of tickets sold and the number of drawings (daily/weekly) the big prize will be given out from time to time.

So, hopefully I and a few others are victims of bad rolls in the big scheme of things, but a part of me sees this often enough that I have my doubts.

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• Even i concer to this. The last game i played, 11 never got rolled in over 100 chance. I even have a screenshot and then number 5,9,10 came twice or thrice combined in last 50 odds amd i end up losIng when i was way ahead. Sometimes i feel like throwing away the device. Why didni pay so mucn to get this bullshit game.

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• Well it's good that people are talking about this. I have played over 1700 games and after losing 160 elo because I was punished when mobile users lost connection, I stopped playing for a year, having been 72 in the world. At the end of that year I had sunk to about 12,000, through little fault of my own. 2 games of 3 would fail with connectivity. I play on a laptop/PC. It seemed that mobile users didn't get punished so much but people with broadband connections on PCs or laptops did.

It is really excellent that the connectivity problems are almost completely fixed now, so thanks to the DEVs for sorting that one out!!

However, the dice rolls under different scenarios are still killing the game, in my opinion. This is completely unnecessary. Like some of you, I have collected a whole lot of screenshots, some at various parts of the game. These and my observations show several things.
Firstly, the dice follow the robber well above probability. I think most people can live with that and it is a piece of knowledge that you can use once learned. Still, is it a good thing? I'm not sure. But you can learn that as a skill and use it.
Secondly, AI replacement players (players who have left the game) will not trade with you if you are ahead. That again is maybe ok but to me it is also unnecessary.
Thirdly, it seems that some people have karma stuck on 'bad' or rolls that have the same effect as bad karma. It is possible that total bad karma incidents (for me 99% from when the connectivity issues were bad) are used to give bad luck rolls in following games (sometimes, it seems, permanently). This seems to happen despite elo. I have had many games against Grandmasters, as one myself and back down to lower elo, where the dice rolls favour the other person. It is common for bad players to blame their luck but I have proved statistically that my luck is way lower on average against all players I have played against. Something is set to 'bad' and I can almost predict the dice because they will be totally fixed to make me lose.

Now developers in MOST games like to interfere with games, to favour people in a bad situation or to punish people in a good situation. Even when playing against AI, if you set a difficulty level then do really well at the start, the game will bias the AI enormously, to make things more even. I don't like that as a default. It's fine as something you can select, to give more even games, where you have to continually play well, even when well ahead. But I like to have most games where my skill (or not) can make me do really well and continue doing really well if I play well. This should be an option and preferably the default.

From all this, my request is that the DEVs use the dice roll cards every game, which will get rid of any bias favouring or punishing any player, as long as they are truly random every turn, ignoring what came before. It is actually easy to generate numbers which are random to all intents and purposes. You could use the millisecond at which a player clicks roll, for example. No one could fix that. This can be used to generate a random number (with equal probability of any number between 1 and 36 as the result). If you base the rolls ALWAYS on nothing but the chances of rolling one of the 36 possible dice combos, to give the correct probability of rolling certain totals, that is the key. This indeed results in more 7's than anything else because 6 (of the 36) combos give 7 as the total. 5 combos (of the 36) give a 6 and 5 combos (of the 36) give an 8. 4 (of the 36) give a 9 and 4 (of the 36) give a 5. etc.. It is simple.

We all want to have an even chance with rolls, so that our skill alone makes our elo rise up or fall. It would be fine to not take too much elo from beginners when they lose, we would all understand that but why not leave tinkering with natural, random dice out of the game, so that all of us can enjoy the game to it's full potential, and advance by skill, not working with the AI bias and hoping that other factors don't interfere.

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• I also think the dice odds can lean against you. I just finished a game where I had 9 points with other players having 4 and 5 points. I had almost all the numbers on the board except 6. For the remainder of the game mostly 6 and 9 Was rolled. 6 and 9 are sheep and wood. Each of the other players have a wood port or a sheep port. These numbers were rolled until I lost. No way in a real game a player would lose being 1 point away from winning and at least a 4 point gap between other players.

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• Yes, that's what happens. Unfortunately, the DEVS think that its clever to interfere with the AI. All it does is ruin the game. And the more you criticize them, the more they punish you. I find it quite amusing now, because situations like you mention here above happen all the time once they decide to mark your card.
Basically, instead of making the dice truly mimic real dice, they interfere with the rolls to give the most unlikely outcomes. That's why from 1276 elo, I went to 1060 in the space of about 30 games. I stopped playing for a year.

DEVS, Please, please, please make the dice truly random to mimic real life. Many people here and lots that you meet when playing are just so fed up with the constant AI interference. Its the easiest thing in the world for you to reset it and it would turn the game from being a totally annoying game into an excellent game, where skill was rewarded. Surely that is the way it should be. Think about it.

Also, please let us criticize you without you feeling the need to punish us. I hope that that isn't too much to ask!
We would love this game if you just made that simple little fix. There is no need to interfere with randomness. It just makes the game very poor, when should be so good.

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