Dice Algorithm Sucks


  • administrators

    @MonkeyZ We do keep track of the dice rolls and I can assure you that the RNG is working fine.

    If you look at all the theories out there on how the RNG might be broken, you will see based on the different testimonials.... it really is random.

    It is simple and straightforward. We didn´t tamper with it nor are we keeping track about single games and where people might have positioned their settlements or cities.

    We keep track of the overall stats.

    Random rolls are an important part of playing Catan properly. If you take away that element of "luck" you will lose a big part of the fun gameplay elements and the spirit of Catan. That is why we do not offer card stack (dice mode) for our more competitive game modes.

    All digital games using some kind of RNG get at some point accused of tampering with it to their advantage. But for as long as I am working on Catan projects no one could ever tell me what advantage we would gain from using a broken or tampered dice RNG :)

    Being "yelled" at because of it all the time ... isn´t really fun nor an advantage ;)

    In my personal opinion, it´s the "stats" that will drive the people to the conclusion that there is something wrong with it. Playing with your family and friends you will most likely not keep track of each dice roll. And if you lose despite the best positions on the board someone will probably console you. And tell you have been out of luck.

    Playing online you don´t have that. And the only thing you can blame for the loss is the: "broken RNG" because it has cost you the win.



  • @Administrator said:

    If you look at all the theories out there on how the RNG might be broken, you will see based on the different testimonials.... it really is random.

    Sorry Admin, this is not a serious evidence and I think you can give us better Information.

    Any RNG on regular programming languages using their standard libs are NOT random.

    If you say, that the RNG, that catan universe is using for:

    Dice,
    Mixing Cards,
    Board Layout,
    Number Generator (except the spiral mode)
    Start of Number at spiral mode
    and any other randomness

    is really random,

    it means, that these numbers are NOT generated by any computer based algorithm!

    So you are using already a system or service like random.org which provides a random number series
    created by some kind of physical properties?

    Quote from random.org(e.g.):

    "What's this fuss about true randomness?

    Perhaps you have wondered how predictable machines like computers can generate randomness. In reality, most random numbers used in computer programs are pseudo-random, which means they are generated in a predictable fashion using a mathematical formula. This is fine for many purposes, but it may not be random in the way you expect if you're used to dice rolls and lottery drawings.

    RANDOM.ORG offers true random numbers to anyone on the Internet. The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs. People use RANDOM.ORG for holding drawings, lotteries and sweepstakes, to drive online games, for scientific applications and for art and music. The service has existed since 1998 and was built by Dr Mads Haahr of the School of Computer Science and Statistics at Trinity College, Dublin in Ireland. Today, RANDOM.ORG is operated by Randomness and Integrity Services Ltd.
    "

    So, Admin please, can you confirm, that catan universe is using a service like this for RNG an NOT an algorithmic based RNG?

    I think a lot of people would be happy if you can confirm this.

    (In case you are NOT using a service like this, please accept, that the dissatisfication of the crowd is entitled and you should change it in this direction)

    CETERVM CENSEO LVDVMCATANEM CONSERVANDAM ESSE

    1


  • Just wanted to confirm that I have seen this strange numbers lately very often in "the first island" game (especially after the last upgrade). It was suggested in another thread, publish all the statistics from all games for dice numbers to see how the curve looks like.

    I have a picture from a recent game and 9 was rolled 20 times while 5 was rolled 3 times. I play catan in real life often and most of the time the curve is in normal parameters. It happens sometimes to have a few more 3s or 11s but as an exception.

    3 and 11 are favourites lateley which is odd. Amd as somebody else said you can see from the begginign if it is a "5" game or "8" and so. I have also noticed that 8 is much better than 6 and I would be curious to see overall how the totals look like.



  • How most computer generated RNGs work is that they need a "seed" and they will always generate the same numbers based on the same seed. We have seen bugs where the seed has always been the same so the numbers rolled are the same throughout the game. The fact that this has already happened makes me personally suspicious about the nature of the RNG you have selected.

    Is the "RNG of the seed" random enough? How is the seed generated? Maybe there are like 10 or 100 different seeds to choose from?



  • @Stroom said:

    How most computer generated RNGs work is that they need a "seed" and they will always generate the same numbers based on the same seed. We have seen bugs where the seed has always been the same so the numbers rolled are the same throughout the game. The fact that this has already happened makes me personally suspicious about the nature of the RNG you have selected.

    Is the "RNG of the seed" random enough? How is the seed generated? Maybe there are like 10 or 100 different seeds to choose from?

    A random Seed is an initial value for a RNG which will offers the same number sequence every time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_seed

    in productive areas the aeed should NEVER be set manually. It is just set at start (e.g. by the actual time) and after this it is never touch - otherwise you could produce same number sequences.

    Only for test purposes or using random values for crypt/decrypt you can set it to a Special value.
    But if you want to use the rng NEVER set it.

    And as I wrote above: NEVER use RNG implemented by a computer algorithm.
    Use physical properties which guaranties real random numbers.

    CETERVM CENSEO LVDVMCATANEM CONSERVANDAM ESSE

    0


  • @Administrator

    Könnt Ihr hier einmal bitte antworten?
    Welcher Zufallsgenerator wird in eurer Software benutzt?
    Diese Frage dürfte doch einfach und schnell zu beantworten sein.
    Einfach mal den Programmierer fragen.

    So ein wichtiger Bestandteil der Spielmechanik sollte dokumentiert sein!

    @Honie said:

    @Administrator said:

    If you look at all the theories out there on how the RNG might be broken, you will see based on the different testimonials.... it really is random.

    Sorry Admin, this is not a serious evidence and I think you can give us better Information.

    Any RNG on regular programming languages using their standard libs are NOT random.

    If you say, that the RNG, that catan universe is using for:

    Dice,
    Mixing Cards,
    Board Layout,
    Number Generator (except the spiral mode)
    Start of Number at spiral mode
    and any other randomness

    is really random,

    it means, that these numbers are NOT generated by any computer based algorithm!

    So you are using already a system or service like random.org which provides a random number series
    created by some kind of physical properties?

    Quote from random.org(e.g.):

    "What's this fuss about true randomness?

    Perhaps you have wondered how predictable machines like computers can generate randomness. In reality, most random numbers used in computer programs are pseudo-random, which means they are generated in a predictable fashion using a mathematical formula. This is fine for many purposes, but it may not be random in the way you expect if you're used to dice rolls and lottery drawings.

    RANDOM.ORG offers true random numbers to anyone on the Internet. The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs. People use RANDOM.ORG for holding drawings, lotteries and sweepstakes, to drive online games, for scientific applications and for art and music. The service has existed since 1998 and was built by Dr Mads Haahr of the School of Computer Science and Statistics at Trinity College, Dublin in Ireland. Today, RANDOM.ORG is operated by Randomness and Integrity Services Ltd.
    "

    So, Admin please, can you confirm, that catan universe is using a service like this for RNG an NOT an algorithmic based RNG?

    I think a lot of people would be happy if you can confirm this.

    (In case you are NOT using a service like this, please accept, that the dissatisfication of the crowd is entitled and you should change it in this direction)

    CETERVM CENSEO LVDVMCATANEM CONSERVANDAM ESSE

    1

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