Just got kicked from my first game.

  • I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of people who think that the timer is overly punitive. Each time, I was racing the clock to complete my move, and was unable to. Each time, I spent some of my turn time waiting for other players to up or down vote my trades. In fact, players are figuring out that the best strategy is now to simply ignore the trade requests of their leading opponent to cost them time. I must also begin to employ that strategy, as that is now optimal play. I think that the turn simply passing after the timer has expired is punitive enough, but to lose the game (because of a balance of what might have been the 2-3 seconds I would have needed to complete those turns) is unprecedented in the types of games I play.

  • I absolutely agree with this. I have been kicked from 3 games on Cities and Knights and just realized that it was because each time the timer runs down it counts against your 3 to lose.

    This is an overreaction to say the least. There are just so many things you can do in CAK that there are many times where I am using almost all the time. Imagine you have 15 cards, and you need to do several bank trades, merchant moving, knight building/activating/etc, build something, improve a city, etc. Eventually, especially late in the game you just plain run out of time.

    I have not played enough to confidently say that the timer should even be lengthened, but what DEFINITELY CANNOT HAPPEN, is that a player is PUNISHED despite being in constant action throughout entire timer period. The timer punishments NEED TO BE UPDATED such that you are only penalized if no action was taken during the turn, or perhaps during the last half of the turn or something that ensures that it is actually punishing inactivity, and not punishing a player for having too much to do.

    This was a huge oversight in implementation.

  • Meanwhile I'll continue losing karma and ELO.... in games where I'm ahead by 6 points. :rage:

  • When you're ahead by 6 points and taking a full 60 seconds more than 3 times in a game... You're the problem. Oi. Think faster and stop wasting everyone's time.

  • @morsCatan this is bullshit. 60 seconds is not always enough time to make all the moves. Sometimes you can not be at your computer all time time. Maybe you get a phone call or someone at the door. The fact that the timer actually kicks players out for things which may be out of their control is horrible. It is a game breaking element. There are definitely much better ways to deal with players who intentionally waste other peoples time. You should not protect the status quo of the timer.

  • @Administrator still probably think that all of these comments plus many which came before are not enough to revert this timer thing given there are 34238423842 users and only 10-20 in forums complain about timer... Irrelevant :D

    Probably should focus their attention on new background picture or additional scrolls ^^

  • @Stroom I'll agree it's sometimes a bit too short. But 3 times in 1 game? Please.

  • @morsCatan Watch a world championship on Youtube; players take near 20 minutes before placing their initial settlements and probably half the turns take more than a minute to complete. I understand CU is not the world championships, and an internet thing and the developers have to take this into consideration, but I can easily see going over 1 minute more than 10 times in a game; especially when your opponents are of high caliber and you are forced to think 2 to 3 moves ahead. And if someone cuts you off, you might have to change your strategy in its entirety; a new one just doesn't pop up instantaneously. I'm not against a timer, I'm just of the opinion that CU should either increase the time/turn or try other options to see if those other options work better. Like I've said in another post, CU doesn't need to re-invent the wheel here. Seems PlayCatan has a great way of dealing with this.

  • The next update will change the timer back to 90s for placement and your own turn. It will also increase the time you can react to an AI trading offer in a multliplayer game to 15s.

  • @Administrator That's definitely a step in the right direction. Like many others, I'd also like to have an extra minute or two during the initial settlement place-down as this is the most important decision you will make in a game. Is this something that could be enacted on easily?

  • administrators

    @Poisonguy We will have to take in account the different playstyles of poeple in Auto-Match. Therefore if the timer for initial placement is to long players ans someone is using his/her time to place others might believe someone is already stalling. We are keeping a close eye on the situation and are willing to tweak the timer further as the developement goes along

  • @Administrator Any chance of a more intuitive timer/punishment interaction? As aforementioned, is there any way to take actual player activity into account when determining penalty? I can understand if the user is completely AFK, or perhaps even AFK for more than [x] seconds of the turn timer, then the user would get 1 of 3 strikes, but it seems overly punitive when the player is actively doing things during that entire time period.

    I'm talking about situations where perhaps you've just finished enough trades to get the resources to build a settlement, maybe you've done other things during your turn like buying a city improvement AND using 3-4 progress cards (these things happen!), and as I'm in the middle of placing that settlement at the end, it skips my turn, and I'm kicked because it's the third time that's happened. Losing the turn would have been punishment enough since I didn't get to place my settlement, but getting kicked from the game thereby losing karma and ELO?

    It just seems like a more intuitive system should be in place.

  • administrators

    @Jeanjacket Thanks for your question. Think about it the other way around. How to detect if someone is doing something beneficial to the game (playing the game) and not just spamming trade requests tapping on the board to open and close the quick build menu and so on. It is a lot easier to fool such a timer system. And it would be a lot more actions we have to track in the game in order to make it wordk. Also for the other players it is not easy to understand that someone is taking a 4- 5 min turn because it is not like they are itting on a table next to each other and talking about every move. We know that the current system is strict but the rules are simple an therefore understandable for everyone. But: There is always the option to adapt (as we will do with the next update) and refine the system and we are willing to do so in the future.

  • Actions which you can not do indefinitely should indicate that the player is making meaningful moves. Building something, using development cards.

    But still, the burden of kicking a player or not should be placed on the players not an automatic timer. Automatic timer is only headache for honest players.

  • administrators

    @Stroom Building as an action takes about a second (clicking on the spot you want to place a ship, village ...). It will take more time to think about the action than actually doing it. And it is quite hard to determine if someone is thinking about the game or is just trolling by openning and closing different windows or scrolling his/her development cards.

  • Thinking about where to build, gathering the resources from trades, using action cards etc all leads to building. Once you actually build, you have used the resources to do the action needed to gain the VPs. When the action of building goes through, the system should understand that the player is not really spamming actions. A building action is different from opening windows. You are looking at it from a very wrong point of view. Of course opening screens and performing infinitely-doable actions is bad. Building on your turn is NOT an action you can perform infinitely.

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