New timer 60 sec and kick out
@administrators I read your update on the new timer and kick out action.
60 seconds is RIDICOULUS, not in early game but in the late stage. When you end up with 5 Progress cards and 15 cards, a minute is not enough to think and to play the right or optimal move. In those final rounds making a small mistake can cost you the game, especially if you run out of time, end up with a ton of cards, and hit a 7 in the following rolls (it happened to me with 90 seconds timer). And you may get kicked out of the game while you are winning if you go over the timer 3 times You developpers are missing completely the dynamic of the game with a flat timer. Have you ever played this game seriously There should be AT LEAST a bank of time the player can use over the timer, or have a progressive timer during the whole game (i.e. 60 seconds at the beginning, 120 seconds at the end), or reset the timer to a minimum of 90 seconds.
Being kicked out after 3 warnings with a 60 sec timer This is only good if a player STOPS playing while he does not physically quit the game. But for the players who keep playing, this is a nonsense device especially in the late stages of the game where you don't have enough time with 90 seconds, imagine with 60 The software should detect inaction and apply this rule because a player stopped playing. BUT it should NOT apply this rule if actions are detected meaning the player is still playing the game. If he goes over his time, the turn moves on to the next player. THAT'S IT ! Another funny improvement reflecting your lack of understanding of the dynamic of a game.
The game should not automatically pass a players turn at all. If you have such a huge problem with bad players, do not punish the innocent players with your rules.
Seriously, how hard was it to copy PlayCatan? In PlayCatan: if a player goes over his limit, all other players can VOTE what to do - either kick the player out (and another player from the lobby can voluntarily come and substitute him) or let the player think longer. Good players will be OK, no harm done. Bad players will be kicked. If all other players in the game are bad... that is the problem with your community management.
@Stroom Well I never played on PlayCatan. But to get back to the topic, if a player does not clicck the end button within 5 seconds and uses all his time, for sure he is stalling the game or not present. Then the warning system and kick out action is valuable.
My concern with the vote is, I believe it can be abused if the leading player does not respond within his time limit, and is kicked out maliciously by the losing players. This has a great impact on his Elo and karma, and such a huge punishment should not be applied for such a minor offense.
@Delta915 Any system can be abused. In PlayCatan you at least have the possibility to have longer turns when needed, just at the mercy of other players. When taking shorter turns than the time limit, other players can not do anything to kick you out. If you are a honorable player, you don't vote to kick out a player who takes a longer turn. I think it is better than automatically ending player turns as if it is a time restricted game.
Also I have not seen that players would act maliciously about player kicking. I guess they would if ELO is at stake. But I also think that ELO is a horrible metric for a game like Catan - just makes no sense. I have only seen players use maximum time limit when losing but that would happen in any system and is impossible to block.
I think we should assume firstly that all players will be mostly reasonable. There is always a way to abuse the system and get on other players nerves. Creating automatic punishments which would affect reasonable players is not the way to go.
EDIT by @administrators The Off-Topic comments have been removed from this thread. Due to violations against our code of conduct. DO NOT DISCUSS possible misbehaviour or violations against our code of conduct here in the forums
Back to the topic:
Our decision to implement the timer system - as planned - was based on learnings we made with our current Catan App and the feedback we received form our Catan Universe community.
Apart from the quitting issue, so called “AFKing” or deliberately slow game play are the most common causes for player reports from which we received 20K! in total since its implementation.
Combined with the feedback we received from our successful Catan App which has an online multiplayer option for years now. We are confident that we came up with a solution that will improve the game.
We believe that the rules are clear and quite easy to understand. To give everyone a chance to get adapted we posted them days in advance before the implementation.
I would suggest to just take a chance and try out how it works
We also announced to open a feedback topic after you all had a chance to play at least one game. Use it to let us know what you think of it.
Using a “click” or “activity” recognition to stop the timer would make things unnecessary complicated and much easier to abuse.
Please keep in mind: All the so called “Player Specific Punishments” (PSP) work together as a whole. For example: If you want to stop people from leaving the game (and punish them for leaving) you will also have to prevent them from blocking or stalling the game so they are not able to “force” someone out of it.
We already stated that the 60 second timer is a test (that´s was the early access is for) and it could be altered quite easily if needed.
Why start at 90 when people already complain that 60 is too short?
What about cases when a player has to leave the computer for a minute? Is he supposed to get automatically punished for things out of his control?
I totally agree that 60 seconds is way too short. Especially considering that your time gets used up when other players are deciding whether or not to trade with you. A player could sabotage another player but making them wait to trade with them. I don't consider myself a slow player as I usually have to set a timer for my husband when we play the board game or he would take 5+minutes! Yet, I got kicked out of the first game I tried playing with this new system. This was even trying to make sure I didn't get kicked out! Not sure when the 2nd time happened either, because the first time was by mistake and then it warned me again (I thought it was the second time) and it immediately removed me. I love that Catan is available to play online and that you all are working to create a great platform, but really...do you all play a turn in 60 seconds on average?
Even if an average turn is 60 seconds... It means half of the turns will be cancelled before they are over. People in USM/exozet really do not seem to have common sense or online game management experience, it seems.
Edit: It also seems like the 60 second limit was chosen just so that they could move it back to 90 seconds in a week to show how good and fast they are to make these small changes and help the community. Shenanigans. Everyone already knew you will put it back to 90 seconds. You did that a year ago too IIRC.
@administrators This game now is UNPLAYABLE. This new timer warning/ban system ? Could not figure out something MORE STUPID ! Could not finish a single game today. With the timer should be an ACTIVITY detector, so only a player stalling the game would get kicked out after 3 warnings.
If you guys think I am gonna pay for this total disastrer Man you are DREAMING. Not a penny will go into your pockets.
And 60 seconds is WAY TOO SHORT as expressed above by Delta915, Stroom and sbernier. I could not finish my turns in order not to get kicked out of the game, so ended up with too many cards that I lost on a 7.
No mentionning the angle of the view on the board is too much, looks like we are playing 5 feet away from the table.
Developpers, you could not do any better to detroy the game. You really think players will pay for this crap ?
@Administrator I would like to join this group and vote totally against 60 sec timer.
It seems that you have made this game sort of what people asked for at the same time majority of focus has been on "commercial" side rather than play-ability.
- timer is ridiculous + as far as I can see from auto-match options not editable;
- timer is running while other people respond to trade - you have made one issue (people stalling game) to another (people actually can't trade due to time limit). For crying out loud...either developers can't read and don't get the idea of what's the issue is or can't incorporate it in the game (or both);
Adding to new features: graphics of the board actually worsen, people asked for smaller board and it became bigger, 3 or 4 player game still works as shitty as it did before - again getting 3 player games right away despite the fact that now when ELO is reset there should be more players to choose from.
Really guys are you even reading the feedback or making this another Candy Crush where people spend money on Viking skins, custom game board and XP boosters (fuck this is another topic worth aspect).
Very disappointed and until timer changes not even going to play this game as it is anyways unplayable.
p.s. intentionally quit my first game due to timer - penalization of players work! hurray! not sure I care though given auto-match setting probably still remains +/- eternity.
I am fine with the timer, it makes the game more fluid and exhilariating. First time my turn was capped off, I was totally sad, and second time even more frustrated - but now I have learned the lesson. It prevents 2-hr long boring games and it makes everyone play quickly.
One suggestion for improvement is that you should be able to build and to play dev cards while proposing trades.
@josq You have learned your lesson What are you talking about I was gonna make my ultimate move and win on my next turn when this STUPID timer cut me off and got kicked out.
No lesson to learn, 60 seconds IS TOO SHORT in late or final stage of the game because you end up with 4-5 progress cards and 10-15 ressource cards. You cannot make a complicated move with a sequence of cards and tradind to the bank.
I'd like to win, maybe you don't, so you would not play so many cards in one turn.
Timer never cut me off... Some people don't need to take the full time every turn. 60 seconds seems fine with me.
@Administrator However with the GUI that is currently set up it makes a 4 step move or more impossible. For instance, I attempted to make the following move before being cut out, Year of Plenty then Bank Trading, Building 3 roads (getting longest road) , and then a settlement for the win. But I was booted from the game entirely. Is there a way that we could fix this? I suggest the following.
Therefore instead of having 60 seconds as a Static time limit allow it to be adjusted for game play, the play being making actions on the board (i.e. Building, Trading, Playing Dev Card, etc.) That would reset this 60 second timer? Thus forcing those being poor losers to only have to waste 60 seconds of time, however for those making a large move within a game have the ability to do so, even if the move takes 3 minutes, all players on the board can see that someone is taking action and not just sittin on the timer? Assuming we use the reset method, then the timer could drop to 45 or even 30. It doesnt take 30 seconds to make a trade or build something.
Allowing this "reset" of the 60 seconds too occur would then make it extremely playable early on when resource and building is more scarce and when people need extra time later.
haven't managed to get a game going yet with the upgrade, initially crashing and then I started reading comments. Glad I am reading this thread before I can actually start a game. I think I earlier started a post or contributed to a post where I argued for more time for each player's first turn. But having read what everybody has said, I am more than happy to try the 60 second timer. Yes, I could certainly use more time for a complex turn, but the tradeoff for me is that I could probably complete most games in 15 to 30 minutes. This is one of those cases where the perfect may be the enemy of the good. 60 seconds may not be enough time to make the best move, but it should be enough time to make a good move. Yes, I love playing Great Catan against AI players and taking my time to figure out which number token on the board an AI player is going to port next to one of the islands. But the AI takes very little time to make its moves and I am the only one slowing things up. The game moves at my pace. As long as we play with the same timer, I will try to adjust. Last, actually seeing the timer is a big improvement. Nothing for me is more frustrating than having the AI make my move for me. However, I will accept it now that I have the timer.
To anyone defending the timer - what the hell?
Yes, most games you can end without having to think very much in each of your turns - just build one or two things and pass the turn. Maybe trade once or twice.
But the actual fun part of Catan comes from the tricky situations. Sometimes the leader is very close to winning and all other players have to cooperate to stop him from winning. Maybe they have to trade the current player enough resources so that he could steal the longest road. But he only has one resource so he has to make several trades to get all the wood and brick in order to build 5 roads, for instance. With a 60 or even 90 second timer that is impossible. The timer running out should not end his turn. NEVER.
@Administrator THIS IS A GAME MECHANISM ISSUE! Automatic timer is the ultimately worst decision you have made in this game. Especially with AI making the moves for you. Essentially you are changing the game to not be Catan anymore.
This is a social game and other players should decide when the current player is afking or not. Yes, this can be abused too but it is much better than the currently implementer strict, stupid-out-of-context automatic timer. How hard was it to copy PlayCatan first and then add your stupid implementations on top of it? If you can not improve the previous version, do not even try.
Catan is not a time based game. It is not Speed Chess where you have mere seconds to think about your move. Defending something as horrible as this leads to the developers stepping more and more out of the boundaries of Catan. What's next? Buy a booster pack so you can decide your dice rolls?
This is not Catan anymore. I would really suggest someone to re-make PlayCatan with all its features and run it alongside Catan Universe. It will definitely bring in more players than this abomination.