Players leaving games to avoid elo loss
People have been leaving games when they know they are about to lose to avoid elo loss. There should be a harsher punishment for players who leave games.
In hockey, any player that gets in a fight in the last 5 minutes of a game gets suspended from the next game. This is to punish any team that tries to "send a message" when they've had they clock cleaned by the other team. Maybe CU can consider a similar system where anyone that quits when the leader drops 7 points or above automatically gets suspended for a week or has to drop a couple of karma stars or goes to the sin bin for 5 minutes to feel shame. Anyway, you can add this suggestion to the plethora of suggestions that you've stacked in a neat pile.
Yes, I agree! This is a huge problem. If a player leaves, it needs to count as a loss toward ELO. If one of three players leaves, the leaving player should automatically "lose," even if the AI wins the game. The two remaining players should be awarded 2nd and 1st, based on their scores. If two of three players leave, the remaining player should "win," regardless of points, and the two that left voluntarily should share a loss. ELO should reflect this. Also, I don't see that Karma is being affected. Essentially, there is no penalty at all for leaving early, and this needs to be fixed soon!!!
At this point I don't know overall how many games get to the end. My guess is that a small fraction of the games being played.
I find it hard not to quit myself when the only games that I finish are the ones I am loosing, because in the games that I should win someone quits, most of the times right before my wining move. For sure my ELO score does not reflect my skill under this conditions.
It is just unbelievable how this is allowed to happen and that after all this time there are still so many issues with Catan Universe ... it's embarrassing. Just take the guys that did Play Catan, give them a month to fix this mess or re-open registrations for Play Catan. This seems hopeless unfortunately.
Well it is not so much a CU game issue - the quitters - rather than community is crooked.
Adding to that I am still doubting how many people are using available options - blocking + reporting players to improve the situation / limit the possibility for quitters to get a game vs good/honest players.
Finally as many said CU seems to attract more new / inexperienced players if we compare it to Play Catan so assuming people will learn it will still take time for this community to get to the level where people do realize that game goes on even after city is lost or even if someone has a better start due to a favorable dice roll.
You are in the wrong again and seem to live in a fairy tale where everything is green and everybody is happy and surounded by flowers. What the hell are you talking about? Let me be as clear as I can:
- The community is crooked ... so what do you propose? To change the whole human nature? If rules are not enforced, by adding an automatic penalty to quitters, no losing player has any interest to stay in that particular game.
- Again you put the blame on players, and you were telling before that you can report a quitter by going to the friends menu. Again you are wrong. In that menu you can find your list of friends and list of blocked people. If you want to report a quitter you can only do it by finishing the game against AI. At least in the ELO list, where you can actually find any player and going to his profile should be the option to block. Reporting should allways be in game so the gamechat gets attached to the report. So yes, the block/report option should be available when the damn quitter quits.
- Again you are talking nonsense. Of course CU is attracting more new/inexperienced players. What is the problem with that, actually it's great. More and more people around the world become Catan fans, playing with their friends, and want to do it online. Unfortunately since Play Catan registrations are closed, CU is the only option to do that. The bad thing about it is that they get to experience this crap, and if they are not extremely patient and zen, they might get to hate Catan.
If you compare it with Play Catan, I am telling you that there were quitter too, but at a much smaller scale, because of the penalties: a few minutes ban from entering another game, karma (star) loss .... which resulted in playing with other quitters combined with the block option actually working and the lobby for games not automatch.
- I block them like crazy, but still play against them because of the damn auto-match. If you go to custom match you will not be able to play a single game. To play games you must use the auto-match, and it does not care of your ban list.
- Stop lobbying for the developers of CU and placing the blame on the community, let them do their jobs.
If we would have another option, we wouldn't be here.
I would say about 70 percent of the games I win, one or both the other players have left. I just don't care about ELO anymore. It means nothing. Also, I block anyone that leaves for no good reason.
I do see a justification for leaving a game if another (or both) the other players make it impossible for you to win by cutting you off AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE. Meaning, they don't care about winning, they've just decided to waste the game making you lose. I will quit the game under those cirumstances only, and that is very, very rare.
@inadad102 My point was that issue is not so much with the game as with the community and as you said we can't change human nature so can't developers. Given you did say "... there are still so many issues with Catan Universe..." it is not quite so true. Major issue cause is still people not the game.
When the latest update will come out and people start losing ELO for leaving the games will see if that changes anything. In my view that will still not make much of a difference which will mainly depend on the ELO penalty as sometimes I would actually sacrifice 4-6 ELO and quit vs playing till the end losing and getting -10 or more ELO...
It will still come down to the fact - are players fair and ready to pay the price for their lucky of skill and/or luck (dice).
I am not enjoying the situation either - today had 3 games, in all 3 people quit while only in one I was totally in the lead, one was 50/50 between me and other player who didn't quit, and in one we actually had 33% chance each but for some reason player still decided to quit. But that's how it goes here, dont like it dont play it
@daedalic - aligning forces (2 people playing vs you if you are in the lead) actually is part of the game. I have done that and there is a good chance to even out the game. Pretty much sucks to be leader.
I would even assume that if you dont do that player who takes an early lead by 2-4 points would always win, that's the only way to stop him go off and own you.
It gets even worse sometimes player not in the lead aligns forces with a leader so leader can win but you get 3rd/4th vs maybe 2nd. Those are cheap-shots even though still part of the game from the perspective of the trailing player (they battle for 2nd given all agree that 1st place is gone).
Only case where I would say quitting might be an option is where some nub who is totally last just start to fuck your game up so you dont have a chance to win while he still has not chance beating you either. Those are cheap-shots.
Yes, the last situation you said is the only time I quit. I did, however, quit a game the other day when both players cut me off in the first round, making it impossible for me to even get a 2nd house down.. it was just too much, too early in the game for me to continue without any hope of winning. Honestly, in this format provided, players have to learn to be a little more accommodating or they will find players keep leaving their games. I don't cut people directly off, especially not off the start.
Quitting is quite a bad problem and the developers of this game can only blame themselves. They just keep shooting themselves in the foot all the time.
- They closed down a perfectly working PlayCatan platform and forced any new player to come and play here. Catan Universe just enforces a toxic community with all its problems and it will naturally continue after the game is finished - no change for quitters. Registration to PlayCatan should be opened until Catan Universe is ready to get out of early access.
- It is quite obvious that the Administrator is here only to collect bug reports from the players. Replies to bug reports are very quick - 2 days max. To any other question you have to wait for 2 weeks or even more. There is no "Community Management" as such. Or it is slow as all other things.
- New online Catan players are forced to come here. They are giving advice about Catan which is mostly related to "game dice are unfair" or "people are ganging up on me when I am ahead" or "alter the game by removing some mechanics from the game because I do not like playing with that". And they do not have any idea about how PlayCatan works so they have nothing to base the requirements of the Catan platform on. You are not getting any advice from other players who are more experienced with online Catan. Initially they tried blocking connection to PlayCatan but the uproar was so big they had to open it again. Since new players have no idea, they don't stand up to this behavior. This is a very shady business practice IMO. Basically forcing players to work for them for free.
- There are a lot of bugs still in the game, the trading system is crap and matchmaker is IMO a very bad way to create games when there is so much customization for the game.
Seriously, if you want the game to actually be playable, open registration to PlayCatan until you get your $#!7 together. Copy the main features and functionalities (trading, lobby, player substitution) from there. Your features have mostly only caused more problems than they have "solved" (Automatic timer, AI making moves for you, AI substitution, (public) ELO are all bad ideas).
Yes there are always people who quit when they're about to lose but I just report them and block them.
@daedalic Well I hope that was the case and they really did cut you of just for fun.
But I can also tell that it might as well be your mistake of placing wrong / not predicting where others will place.
I have seen this being an issue from novice player's perspective. They think I place to cut them off but I actually predicted where they will place and had that spot in mind already from my first glance at a map latest after my first placement.
Please don't confuse those two things, sometimes you just see the worst in otherwise but not even a slightest mistake in yourself.
@mrolimpia112 I'm no novice. I've literally played 1000+ games of Catan. I know when somebody is just throwing their game so you lose. Also, I have seen several games on here where two players are colluding for one of them to win. They are likely the same player with two accounts.
And yeah that shit happens, have seen it before and in other games as well. Never got the motivation behind those people who possibly have two accounts and join one/multiple games at a time and ruin it eventually for others. People literary are throwing their lives away.
Oh well you can either educate them or just block
1-Maybe we can get a little more complex here. Have two separate scores: one for games completed without AI players and one for games completed with one AI player.
I think most people quit when they realize the game is going to continue with an AI player.
If I am already half-way into a game, I want to continue no matter what. I want to see how my strategy and choices pan out with or without AI players.
2-I think I hear a lot of support in these posts for mixing in Karma with ELO. Maybe a way to begin this process is to give everyone who finishes a game 1 ELO. Might make the quitters think twice. Also, gets us away from the punishment issue. Yes, it would distort the process in a perfect ELO world, but, as we are in an imperfect world, I am happier to play with someone who might not be as good as me than with a brilliant player who quits on me.
3-No, I don't know if we should be giving people a free pass if they quit at the beginning of a game, but if that happens rarely, we can make the choice to quit and live with the ELO consequences.
I think people can do with a little damage to their ELO in order to avoid a frustrating 30 minutes of a game where they poorly choose their settlement placement or have an early bad turn.
4-I just want to finish the games I start.
The common problem to all this is public ELO. Remove that and you do not have to worry about these things at all. Then you can actually focus on the problem of quitters who quit because the game does not go like they want. I would rather see no-one quitting even if they can not get more than 4 points in the game. Quitting a game because you are a sore loser is just a bad thing and no-one should say that it is allowed under any circumstances.
Karma should be the main metric for assigning players into the same game. Nothing else matters.
I would rather see a lobby for creating games instead of a matchmaker. Then players have more control over who they play with and what game options are chosen. Matchmaker tends to still place players with less karma in the same game with you after some time passes. Apparently a lot of players do not agree with that (you whine about people quitting so players with less karma appear in your games). In a lobby your limit is set in stone and the quality of your game will mostly be better as long as you do not quit as well.