1. Is there anywhere you can see how much time is left in your turn? Not knowing makes it difficult to make complex plays because you aren't sure when you are going to be cut off.

    2. Would it be possible to get more time to place pieces at the start. If you place one quick, then maybe you could get the balance of time left for that piece added to your second piece.

    3. Would it be possible to add time every time you complete a successful task, like a trade, or place a piece. When you are doing multiple moves in one turn the time limit becomes prohibitive.

    1. Good idea. Almost a no-brainer but I guess the developers are on a tight schedule so they implement the features in a very basic level which makes the game not work. Look at the matchmaker and the block list implementations.

    2. Indeed.

    3. This could be abused by users - offering trade agreements all the time to increase their timer.

    Overall, it would be much better that if you run out of time, your turn does not automatically end. Instead, other players can vote on whether the player has to end his turn or he can think longer. Sometimes people have to be away from the computer so if other players are OK, they can allow it so the player does not get unnecessary penalty for it. Forcing strict rules on people never works.

  • Agreed this blanket time isn't very good.

    1. It's actually too long for most turns. People take it all and it slows down the game. There should be a little pressure to play at a reasonable pace. (See below for caveats)
    2. It can be tight on the initial placements if the map is odd and you have to think about it. Another 15 seconds for the first placement would be nice.
    3. It can be short if you are trying to trade and people take awhile to respond. Especially if you are going to trade with the bank as well and build multiple items. Perhaps a mechanism to add time when trading or if you have a lot of cards (>10) in your hand.

  • More time to place first settlement + city - definitely yes. This would be especially valuable for either tricky maps or in case you initial plan is broken up so you really have to think where to place the city.
    3 min to start the game would be fine by me.

    As for trade I would say that waiting for the response of the players should stop the timer so:

    1. in case you don't want to wait you can always cancel trade;
    2. players could not use this for their advantage = slowing you down/limiting your actions per turn;
    3. if your offer is tricky players still had time to think as well whether to trade with you or not.

    As for stopping a timer during the trade itself or giving longer time limits after initial placement - I am totally against. Games are already quite time consuming and people should be aware of what is going on, what will happen and what actions to take. 90 sec for all that is quite enough.

    Me personally have run out of time only when:
    a ) did got distracted and not focused on the game;
    b ) did make some mistakes and had to really think and work the way out of the situation with multiple trades / chat etc.;
    c ) got really lucky with resources, uncovered hex and treasures and created very long line of ships.

    Never I have run of time otherwise.

  • If the timer stopped during trade offers... People would just spam trade offers to annoy you until the time runs out. There would be no way to kick the person out. My proposition to allow players to vote after the timer runs out would fix that.

    Games here are only time consuming because of the inefficient user interface. Trade screen sucks. Building is slow. Rolling the 7s animation is unnecessary. I do not think it would increase the time of the game if reaching the time limit does not automatically end your turn. It would rarely happen but if it does, in no way should it happen automatically. It is a game and good sportsmanship would be to allow other players decide what to do.

    Some players like to take their time. If everyone in the game are OK with that then there should not be an automatic timer. Encourage players to play nice instead of punishing for everything that is out of normal situations.

    Getting distracted during a game can always happen. If you start a game which probably takes about 40 minutes, a lot of things can happen. A lot of players have families who need their attention. Saying that you have no place in Catan Universe if you occasionally have to take a 1 minute break from the game... Good luck keeping this platform up. PlayCatan people will tear you a new one when you finally close it for good. You will be starting the PlayCatan servers up in under a month because all public channels will be filled with outraged players, just like last time.

  • My point about trading was that timer is stopped WHILE WAITING FOR RESPONSE. So if other players are not interested in stalling the game there should not be any issues. Worst case you notice person offering "fake" trades to stall time - click no trade. Issue solved.

    As for your voting option - that raises a lot of questions as well like:

    How is the called made - majority or it must be unanimous yes or no?
    In case call is made no as unanimous vote how to treat cases where for example in 3 player game 2 are for "taking the time" while 3rd player is in a hurry...
    How sure are you that players will keep up with fair game principles and in the end of games will not just vote to end players turn just because they don't want him to win or to say more precisely - force him to lose?
    Same works visa verse - player who is in the lead might want to keep his position safe by forcing others playing faster...

    Too much democracy does not work in my opinion - you end up in endless votes, discussions and arguments. There must be rules which of course will not be perfect but at the same time "ok/good" for everyone or at least majority.

  • Waiting for response - of course you can spam trade offers and make the game longer. Every other second is wasted. Add server delays etc... Basically doubling the time. Also, it is annoying for other players to click "no trade" button 60 times before the turn is over. Some people might give up before that or not click "no trade" for a few seconds, making the waiting time even longer.

    I don't know if you have played on PlayCatan or not... Seems like no. Anyway, it worked with the combination of lobby, player substitutions and voting players out of the game. I could give you an account so you can try how easy it is to play on PlayCatan compared to CatanUniverse but it is against the rules. Just look at NeoNate Youtube channel.

    How voting is done in PlayCatan:

    1. Turn timer is over (PlayCatan has the same kind of timers CatanUniverse has). All players except the player who is being voted to kick can vote. Any one of the players can start the vote.
    2. A simple majority decides. 3 players - 2 votes. 4 players - 2 votes (because one player is not voting)
      3a) If the vote fails, you can try voting again after a minute or so.
      3b) If the vote passes, the player is kicked and can be substituted by a player from the lobby. The substitute does not lose any points if he does not win. If he wins, he gets the points. The leaver/kicked out player loses points.

    Good way to find reliable players from the ones who are willing to substitute. Increases community friendliness etc. Matchmaker anonymity increases people to think less of their opponents.

    In PlayCatan, mostly the turn timer is not exceeded. People have common sense and take their turns quickly. If someone has to take a 2 minute break but otherwise his turns are 20 seconds, does it really matter? If you are in a hurry anyway, why start a game? The game may last from 20 minutes to an hour. If you really are in a hurry, you can kindly tell it to other players. They may make their moves quicker or... another feature in PlayCatan which was not copied for whatever stupid reason... the players can vote to quit the game together without anyone getting a penalty. So if you are in a hurry and other players are friendly to you, you do not get negative karma.

    Why people keep up with fair game principles? Because you can report them. Because most players have the decency and are not dicks to each other all the time. In about 1-2% of the games you might have an asshole but since kicking is allowed, you can still get rid of him. The game still has a timer. But when the timer runs out, the procedure is different. In PlayCatan you can start a vote to kick someone. If you are in the lead and your timer does not run out, you are safe. Voting is only allowed when the timer runs out. But the player is allowed to take longer turns when necessary and other players allow it.

    Also, you can abuse the CatanUniverse system a lot more by leaving the game and allowing the timer to run out every time. No punishment, no kicks. It will take longer to end a game with a grieving player in CatanUniverse than in PlayCatan.
    CatanUniverse: About 70 rolls in a game. One player has 17 rolls. About 7 rolls in, someone decides to stop playing. 10 rolls of waiting the timer to run out. average turn is 30 seconds. Now it is 90 seconds. You will lose 10 minutes of your life because of someone abusing the automatic timer. The player has left the computer and is doing other things. He is not wasting his time while you are.
    PlayCatan: Similar abuse can be done but the player has to actually roll the dice and end the turn himself. Otherwise people can kick him out when the timer runs out the first time. The player is punishing himself as well.

    Which one would you take? I would take PlayCatan.

    Of course every system can be abused. I would rather have an occasional player we have to kick out than have the timer run out on me and force me to play the game in a situation which I did not agree to.

    How often do you think people end up in endless votes? Usually only one player causes problems. If you kick him out, you can continue normally. Usually people still kick the player taking long turns.

  • I agree. Last 10 seconds is not enough notice and sometimes I wouldnt use a certain card if i knew I wasn't going to have time to complete a trade, etc.

  • @Stroom you really should limit yourself to the topic rather than posting all that info about making CU same as PlayCatan in every post.

    I have played PlayCatan and really makes no difference to me - I guess I dont have as high standards.

    As for the topic:

    1. you dont have to press no-trade button X times, just enable it and that's it as soon as spammer sends and offer your response in instance is no => timer goes on, maybe he would gain a milisecond but he for sure will get tired setting up offers rather than you waiting for this turn to end.
      Plus while setting offers probably he will not be able to think about the moves and multitask => should not encourage people to stall the game via this options.

    2. In a hurry in my post I mean that yes I have maybe an hour but not more and hope that game will take closer to 40 min.

    3. Given CU does not have lobby - suggestions related to that is well pointless at the moment.

    4. If majority decides about any vote - again my point stands, there is a possibility that you as a leader are forced to play faster / leader might not vote for 2nd place to have more time and in 3 people game that would play against 2nd placer as he does not have a vote, one player assuming votes yes but leader votes no and secures his spot.

  • @mrolimpia112 The features I talk about are related to each other so that's why I explain how they all would work together. It gives a bigger picture to how things work. I don't think I went that much off topic with my last post. I only mentioned lobby once and in relation to the timer.

    1. The option to not see any trade offers seems stupid to me. I never turn it on. What if the other player gets really desperate and offers 4 resources for 1? Or you forget to turn it off and you miss on good trade offers? It is only good to play vs AI because the AI offers pointless trades all the time. Yes, it can be used in your timer version, but I still do not think that running out of the time should automatically end your turn.

    2. Usually in PlayCatan players do not let the inactive player stay away for a long time. It is not that big of a problem that games would last over an hour because someone is constantly taking long turns and players allow going over the timer limit. Even with the current timer your game could take 2 hours if everyone used all of their 90 seconds each turn. What I advocate is that players could take a few occasional long turns in the game without any penalties. Let the other players allow that. No need to enforce strict rules on the game.

    3. I am suggesting to also start using a lobby. Why would I give recommendations per-feature if I could show that another set of features is better than matchmaker... It makes everything better if instead of matchmaker we have a lobby.

    4. How often do you think that will happen? You can report the other players for that behavior and the admin deals with it after the game. I think the quitters and intentional AFKers are being a much bigger problem in Catan Universe than this. An AFKer can waste much more of your time with the current timer rather than in PlayCatan as I mentioned in my last post. I think you do not understand the PlayCatan voting + timer feature combo so let me explain again.

    First, PlayCatan also has a timer (let's say 90 seconds). If the timer is not over, you can NOT start the vote for the player to end his turn/be kicked. The option appears only when the timer is over. You can NOT force a player to play faster as long as his turn is shorter than 90 seconds.
    The vote is about kicking the player for taking a long turn. If you do not vote, then the turn will last longer. You need a majority to end the turn not the other way around. I think you misunderstood this part - you think that the vote is about making the turn longer but actually the vote is about ending the turn. There is a difference.
    The vote can only be started if the turn was longer than 90 seconds. Some people may choose to allow longer turns for whatever reason so they do not start the vote or do not vote on a started vote. If one vote fails, you can vote again after another minute or so. It is just meant to allow an occasional longer turn OR to not allow it and vote that the player is taking too long. It is up to the players rather than automatic and that is what makes it much better. If you don't like how other people use that feature, feel free to use the report feature after the game.
    What is a majority of a vote? In a 3 player game, both other players have to vote YES to end the other player turn. If there is no vote, the turn will go on. So no, one player can not force another player to end his turn.
    Yes, 2 losing players can force the leader to end his turn after his timer runs out. But in that case, they are probably not trading with him anyway and there is not much you can do during your turn with your own cards. Only if the leader has to go AFK due to some real-life reasons, the losers have the ability to influence him in a meaningful way (again, after the first 90 seconds). And it is up to their good sportsmanship/ethics to decide whether to do it or not. It would be the SAME as Catan Universe BUT you actually have the OPTION to make the turn longer if the players allow it. I do not see that it would harm anyone, rather make the game less stressful - not worrying as much about the timer when going to take a bathroom break or something.

    1. Of course this option has this drawback of not seeing the offers or missing out on big deal but thats the choice either or x-clicks per min...

    2. It is more about intention / counter matter in my view. Similar as with banlist - when it was not present people quit, when it is present people still quit but apparently a bit less at least, when first bans will be issues hopefully that number will go dramatically.
      Same with timer/vote - no vote, no fear and people take their time as you said because they can.

    3. I am done with the lobby really :)

    4. Well this type of vote makes sense more.

    1. So we should take penalties in game because of the timer system? How is that good? This means that the problem is with the trade system. Seriously, PlayCatan does that (trade and timers) much better.

    2. And as I said, starting the vote is up to the other players. YOU can start the vote if someone else is not active. If someone is indefinitely AFK without being kicked, it is because YOU with other players allow him/her to take a longer turn. And that is fine.

    3. Well, I'm not. Currently the game will not be played because there is no way to have a friendly community.

    4. Still, the MAIN idea is that automatic timer is a horrible solution and that there are better ways.

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