When are you planning to do something about players just leaving the game without ending so AI player kicks in. I understand the platform is a bit unstable but I would be great if the game al least could continue after a 2 minutes if players are passive ore not by the key board... And if player is passiv for 2 ore 3 rounds AI player would automatically take over. Endless games with quitters that makes it impossible to finish games kind of takes the joy out of playing...
Of all the problems with the game this is the absolutely most annoying!
I disagree with AI taking over. If you get a sudden phone call or someone knocking on your door, the other players could forgive. The automatic AI thing does not forgive and it makes a game more like a work. Maybe create a button which other players could click if someone's turn takes too long, then AI can kick in. At least it's not automatic and players can decide if they want to wait more or not.
Also, your timers are bad all over. Settlement placement should take much longer than the regular turns. Trading and building are so slow because of your [censored] animations. The move timers should either be longer or remove all animations from the game. Trading still needs re-doing, it is slow and ugly and bulky and it breaks a lot. Seriously, your game state always breaks with the trade screen.
Players should get leavers penalties and be put lower in matchmaking. So far you have not implemented that at all. Why would we believe you can make a good matchmaker if everyone is in the same queue - good and bad players. Seriously, you need to bring back lobby so players can organize the games themselves. And player substitutions are valued much more than AI.
Do not implement anything automatic. Start by implementing player ranks and leaver penalties. Then bad players will not be able to ruin so many games for regular players.
If you are trading you are not passive, if you are building you are not passive. If ju just do nothing you are passive. If you talk in phone, are on Fb or cooking dinner you are passiv in the game.
Either you play or do something else. Your choice but it should not affect other players.
In the old Catan platform you could vote a player out with majority vote. I worked well and was a blessing with players that just left the game or deliberately delaying game.
Yes, a vote is OK. But this should not be automatic. There can always be some problems when you have to stop playing. Kids parents calling them to eat or someone ringing your doorbell. People should not be punished for that all the time, especially if it is not intentional. Voting could theoretically be abused as well but that's better than automatic kicks.
I want to be careful about voting. If there are 2 immature players that are losing and just want to kick the 3rd person off, they would be able to do so. In fact, they can plan to do that all night and take turn winning - like the biggest losers ever. I have seen something like this happen in another game. I suggest the timer for inactivity. When someone is inactive for 2 minutes, it should automatically roll for them and/or end their turn.
I also advocated a while ago that those who leave games abruptly because they were losing, should have a record. Of course accidents can happen, but when someone "quits" 3-5 times in one week when they were losing..they should be penalized. At least if everyone can see their track record, they punish themselves in a way.
Either way can be bad. It is worse for the game integrity if AI is making moves for you, though. I have not seen ANY game where this would be enforced. Do you see AI taking over players in FPS games? This is so bad on so many levels. Sadly the creators of this game are unable to admit their mistakes. They will continue doing things based on their vision even if players do not like it.
What is done in PlayCatan is that the turn timer still exists, but voting someone out is allowed only after the timer hits 0. This is a good mix of the two things. You have time to do your things but you can also hope that the other players are friendly enough to let you take more time if you need it.
What has happened in PlayCatan was that immature players waited the full timer delay and made the moves right in the end before you could kick them out. Immature players will always find a way. Give players more freedom and stop taking it away.
The automatic timer would not make the game better. Playing vs AI is worse than playing vs humans. The AI and timer combo (and matchmaking) does not fall in line with the notion that the creators want to make a board game which feels like real life. It's more like they want to add all the features together just to get some programming experience.
Since lobby does not exist and we can not have player substitutions anymore, this game is going to get a very toxic community. You can never get rid of immature players but do not punish everyone with the same stick!
When it comes to abruptly leaving, I agree. Quitting and constantly running out of time should be included in a player profile.
A very good example is the system in Board Game Arena:
- First, they have a LOBBY! You can see all the games being created and you see the info on other players
- The players have different stats shown to other players:
ELO (Roughly how good the player is, although it is meant for 2 player games, might show SOMETHING in Catan but not entirely reliable) and the ELO divides players into 5 groups: Beginner, Average, Good, Expert, Master
How many games the player has played (Could be divided by expansions too in this case)
How many games the player has left and what is the percentage over all games. (Maybe count the last ~ 100 games or within the last year)
How many times the player has the timer run to 0 for the player and what is the percentage over all games.
- Having a lobby makes searching for games easier. The game creator sets the values: "I want people with ELO within this range..." (Let's say I want only Good and Expert players - ELO 1400-1800) I want people who leave less than 10% of the games. I want people who run out of time less than 20% of the games. The players can enter the games only if they match these criterion.
BGA also has a thumbs up and thumbs down system but it would not work with an already toxic player base. People would vote down everyone if they lose. These creators are acting more in a punitive way rather than promoting players to act with common sense.
If the matchmaking system still remains and we do not get a lobby, creating games will become a very slow process. As I said in another topic, the game has an average of 14 games being created at any moment. If people want to play a customized game with this low number, you will probably have to wait many hours until the matchmaker finds enough players. Or the players get tired waiting and they reluctantly play the default setting game i.e. quick match which puts ALL players in the same queue and matches immature players with normal players anyway. The matchmaker is bad and it will always be bad. It will only promote playing default 3 player games. It has been made much harder to create a game with any other customization now that the lobby is gone.
Isn't there still a problem with players that want to play but get a frozen game?
I suppose not everybody that leaves abruptly has the intention to do so.
Asking or relying on others to vote is a game on its own. Playing with a clocked timing is the same for everyone.
Maybe there should be a warning on the screen if you have less than 15 seconds?
If someone needs to interrupt the game because of a doorbell, he/she has to leave and he/she should call for AI him/herself before leaving. That seems the most polite way of doing to me. If it happened by a frozen game, the player should be able to report that, so there would be no penalty. If it only took a few minutes, he/she should be able to continue the game, accepting the moves done by AI. If that's not perfect, well a robber is nasty too.
It would be nice to see the ELO of the other players.
At current state, the games freeze a lot. Yes, these cases should be excluded. But the developers should develop a game that does not crash every 2 minutes. You can not take the crashes into account. Also the Administrator said that all karma and stuff is periodically reset because of that. Leaving is an exception, it does not happen in most of the games. When it does, the player should get a penalty for it even if it was not his fault. This shows to other players that that player might have internet problems etc.
"Asking or relying on others to vote is a game on its own." - Umm, no. It's just common courtesy. Allowing someone to take a longer turn is politeness. If you demand all turns to be strictly 2 or 3 minutes is bad sportsmanship. Usually people do that to get an edge over other players.
The game is missing live timer. Last 15 seconds? That's barely enough to click the end turn button. With all the lag the game has. Annoying animations etc. You can start and end your turn in 0.5 seconds in PlayCatan. In Catan Universe it still takes 2-3 seconds. REMOVE ALL ANIMATIONS!
Sorry for being too straightforward now:
This is idiotic. Asking for an AI to substitute for you at any time is not OK. Why would I suffer from bad AI decisions? I can ask other players to give me some extra time. If it happens ALL turns, of course people might get mad but if it's one turn in 5 games it is perfectly fine. Having an automatic policeman behind your back is not a friendly solution. AI is overall a bad thing and it should only be used if the player WANTS to play with AI.
How will the other players know that the one who is asking for a quick leave, doesn't ask that in most of the games he plays? In sports there are no interruptions, or there are regulated ones. Asking the others can be fine if you know the players. If you don't chose your opponents there are many factors, not related to the game, that can interfere. So you can play against opponents that are very friendly, others are not.
It's better to count on people to let you go over your time limit rather than having the AI move for you. Let the players decide if they want to let another player take more time or not. Hopefully people will be more nice and will not abuse this. If the player does keep abusing it, people will notice.
Also, see how boardgamearena.com deals with players who go over the limit - you have a counter which shows how often you go over time limits in games.
New one...thanks to someone UNNAMED (for now). I overtook her longest road...and it looks like she can't win...and then a 7 hits and she has to discard 4 cards and DOES NOTHING!! This needs a time limit...and people like this should be penalized!
Of course it could have been an accident that she could not have prevented...So this is where we should see this person's track record. If they have a record of "freezing" when they are losing...this should be held against them.
Ashpenaz, I've had the same thing happen a few times.. players freeze games and don't play, just to spite you and stop you from getting the win. There HAS to be a time limit implemented.. even 5 minutes.. just eventually! You can't let holes in the game allow for petty people to ruin it for others, because they always will. There are a lot of petty people out there in the world. The internet has taught me that.
Why don't we just name and shame the quitters?!
Some just leave, but others are just downright disgraceful quitters.
16/10/16 I just had this from the user 'EDIT BY @administrators ' - "ill leave if u block me" [sic] and sure enough, they left when I blocked their road.
16/10/16 'EDIT BY @administrators ' just quit as they had the robber again
16/10/16 'EDIT BY @administrators ' was just losing, another quitter!
EDIT BY @administrators:
Please "call out" players in threads referring to missbehavior in game. You can write us an email to firstname.lastname@example.org and we will invetigate the case. We are also currently testing the block/mute and report optionts that will be aviabale for all players with the upcomming update.
There should be an option, in which we should blacklist the quitters in game. At the very point when they quit, or try to freeze game, a dialog should appear of ticking them on, so they wont be messing people's games all along the future. If someone plays 10 games in a week, and half of them, or beneath 50% quits, he must be banned. Not karma and stuff, real ban by the users, and if someone want to get back in multiplayer games, they should pay in real money the "flag" on them. Unless they have payed the ban, then let em win in single player, but never mess with rest of us.
I build stuff
A 5min ban for quitting one game and 15min for quitting 2 in a row would help immensely. The game should also count as a loss for the quitter, even if the other players don't get a win for the game. It's fair to both sides.
I would agree that some time limit bad is a good idea.
In case person quits = straight forward either he/she is quitter and should be penalized (at least by waiting).
If he/she had to go and thus quit it will do no harm (apart from quitting and karma). But that's a fair price to pay.
Given many quit by forcing game close => creates 2 min window to reconnect, I would actually make that waiting time for a person as long as 10 min but for sure not less than 5 whatever the cause of disconnect is.
Plus adding to raised topic of people disconnecting due to internet connection - those are not solve usually faster than 10 min anyways so quitters get what they deserve / people who are having tech issues are not able to connect and ruin their stats / more games while issues are being resolved.
p.s. last night I faced 3 quitters during 25 min spawn and ended up playing 1 full game in like 2+ hours given during the last one it was a hard challenge + people went AFK every 2nd turn.